# Thunderstorm where **URL:** \ **Category:** Tempest Owners\ **Tags:** air-module\ **Created:** [April 28, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903 "2018-04-28T17:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![spacesnow](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/spacesnow/32/252_2.png) [@spacesnow](https://community.tempest.earth/u/spacesnow)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/24 "2018-04-28T19:20:40Z")
i ve no idea strikes are very fast i m not technical enough how to calculate this i think the electric fields are near lightspeed… the only way could be something to read the strikes of nearby stations but i think theres no way too use anothers api so we leave it on distance as you said how accurate is the distance? ---
**Author:** ![vinceskahan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/vinceskahan/32/2785_2.png) [@vinceskahan](https://community.tempest.earth/u/vinceskahan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/25 "2018-04-28T22:24:21Z")
Have to disagree about ntp time not being accurate - you’re within 0.5 ms of completely accurate time from the upstream servers. Yes GPS time is the ideal, but the difference is negligible. ---
**Author:** ![weather-display](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/weather-display/32/989_2.png) [@weather-display](https://community.tempest.earth/u/weather-display)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/26 "2018-04-28T23:05:45Z")
you are talking about something travelling at the speed of light though (the electromagnetic pulse) and the SKY unit only picks up the strikes when they are relatively close and so at that close distance, any differences in time of arrival between adjoining stations will be very small and so you need a very accurate time stamp ---
**Author:** ![vreihen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/vreihen/32/13217_2.png) [@vreihen](https://community.tempest.earth/u/vreihen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/27 "2018-04-28T23:23:37Z")
The AS3935 lightning sensor used in the WF and other consumer devices is just that…a consumer-grade device. Useful for getting the kids off of the football pitch as a storm approaches, but not useful as a scientific instrument. The strike distance estimates do not have enough resolution to be useful, and the detection distance makes it essentially useless using Blitzortung-style time-based triangulation… ---
**Author:** ![GaryFunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/garyfunk/32/5729_2.png) [@GaryFunk](https://community.tempest.earth/u/GaryFunk)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/28 "2018-04-28T23:23:47Z")
We don’t need NIST accuracy here. All we need to do is detect a strike then check the stations that are close for a strike. If one is found we look at the distance to see if it is closer or further than it indicates on our station. If more than one station is close it gives a general distance and direction of the lightning. It’s going to be a best guess but it’s more than we have now and it gives the OP what he is asking for. ---
**Author:** ![GaryFunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/garyfunk/32/5729_2.png) [@GaryFunk](https://community.tempest.earth/u/GaryFunk)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/29 "2018-04-28T23:33:23Z")
It would be nice to find a service that can queried with lat,long and return of distance, degree, timpstsmp of the last X strikes. If anyone knows of such a service, please post here. ---
**Author:** ![weather-display](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/weather-display/32/989_2.png) [@weather-display](https://community.tempest.earth/u/weather-display)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/30 "2018-04-28T23:49:22Z")
the distance is only approx, with the lightning detector used its based on an assumption of the weaker the signal , the further away it is, but there are many more variables in play than that simple assumption A Boltek has 2 antenna , 90 degree to each other, and so it can work out the direction that way ---
**Author:** ![todayweather4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/todayweather4/32/708_2.png) [@todayweather4](https://community.tempest.earth/u/todayweather4)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/31 "2018-04-28T23:51:19Z")
to not make the other confuse, the SKY doesn’t have a lightning detection but The AIR have this sensor. also the blitzortung is not accurate as you think, because sometime I have a lot of lightning strike but the blitzortung just detect 4 strike, so the blitzortung have the limited ability , and you can find on their website that they mention something about that. here what they say: ““Blitzortung is not an official authority for lightning or thunderstorm data. The data shown on our website is provided only for private and entertainment purposes.”” ---
**Author:** ![GaryFunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/garyfunk/32/5729_2.png) [@GaryFunk](https://community.tempest.earth/u/GaryFunk)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/32 "2018-04-28T23:54:15Z")
> [@weather-display](#): > > the distance is only approx, with the lightning detector used > > its based on an assumption of the weaker the signal , the further away it is, but there are many more variables in play than that simple assumption > > A Boltek has 2 antenna , 90 degree to each other, and so it can work out the direction that way We are all fully aware of this. Let’s not argue. Let’s try to help the OP with the equipment he has. ---
**Author:** ![weather-display](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/weather-display/32/989_2.png) [@weather-display](https://community.tempest.earth/u/weather-display)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/33 "2018-04-29T01:45:39Z")
Re Blitzortung,yeah, it mainly only picks up Cloud to Ground strikes but its location of those strikes is accurate (as long as you have enough detectors in your country /area) I don’t think the WeatherFlow lightning detector is going to be usefull for the direction of the lightning unless they change the design to have 2 antenna, 90 degress apart ---
**Author:** ![vreihen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/vreihen/32/13217_2.png) [@vreihen](https://community.tempest.earth/u/vreihen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/34 "2018-04-29T11:14:16Z")
> [@weather-display](#): > > I don’t think the WeatherFlow lightning detector is going to be usefull for the direction of the lightning > unless they change the design to have 2 antenna, 90 degress apart …or the WF dream team comes up with a lightning detector system to disrupt that market. 😉 FWIW, I’ve been on the Blitzortung waiting list for a few years now, and have only moved up to number 2700 out of 3600. If somebody could run a batch of 1000 units, I’m sure that they would sell in a month… ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/phoenix/32/2071_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://community.tempest.earth/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/35 "2018-04-29T14:00:33Z")
> [@vreihen](#): > > > [@weather-display](#): > > > > I don’t think the WeatherFlow lightning detector is going to be usefull for the direction of the lightning > > unless they change the design to have 2 antenna, 90 degress apart > > …or the WF dream team comes up with a lightning detector system to disrupt that market. 😉 > > FWIW, I’ve been on the Blitzortung waiting list for a few years now, and have only moved up to number 2700 out of 3600. If somebody could run a batch of 1000 units, I’m sure that they would sell in a month… Can you provide a little insight and history about the above?? Why is there such a long wait to be added to what ever group / service? What is the purpose of limiting people from accessing or using this service?? If its paid how much is it per year / month? ---
**Author:** ![eric](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/eric/32/13553_2.png) [@eric](https://community.tempest.earth/u/eric)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/36 "2018-04-29T14:13:15Z")
Blitzortnung is not a ‘paid service’. Yes you have to buy a detector (cost price to make it and transport). Once you participate you have access to all the data. This is ran by basically 2 people (Egon and Tobias from Germany) and they cover the cost for the servers. Development is mostly done by them + a very little group of HW/SW experts in the matter of lightning. There are several reasons why it is going slow. - It’s Egon that does all the hardware related things and it is taking time to do as this is not a business nor automated thing. Boards are produced in batches as he pre pays all. - Since latest model (blue) they are taking it a bit slower as they invested ‘too’ much personal time into this taking it’s toll. - Expanding the network with thousands of detectors to quickly will create heavy problems server side as the data flow is pretty huge (each station does send several hundreds of Mb when an active storm is near). - Also most orders come from people in already dense covered regions, except sending more data, it will not add more accuracy ‘yet’. They prefer to send to people in remote areas or not dense zones. - Since several months they focus more on serverside software to improve performance and to exploit the better options from the blue systems. Again no one makes any money from Blitzortnung. It is a community system and there is no business model behind it. That’s as much I know about it. ---
**Author:** ![GaryFunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/garyfunk/32/5729_2.png) [@GaryFunk](https://community.tempest.earth/u/GaryFunk)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/37 "2018-04-29T18:08:47Z")
I just looked over the site. > Your request is ranked at position 3669 of 3669. If detectors are available, persons with a low rank are contacted by email. The lowest rank ist 1. Your rank is decreased when lower requests were processed. You can query your rank, by sending a request with the same email address. Just for fun I’m going to track their progress. They have built an interesting network. They just need some good financial backing. The cost, when available is about $360 so it’s affordable but do to the lack of stations in most areas coverage is hit and miss. There are currently 1904 stations in there database and 772 of those are offline. I think WeatherFlow could do a much better job with the proper detector. ---
**Author:** ![vreihen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/vreihen/32/13217_2.png) [@vreihen](https://community.tempest.earth/u/vreihen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/38 "2018-04-29T23:10:00Z")
> [@GaryFunk](#): > > > Your request is ranked at position 3669 of 3669. If detectors are available, persons with a low rank are contacted by email. The lowest rank ist 1. Your rank is decreased when lower requests were processed. You can query your rank, by sending a request with the same email address. Welcome to the Blitzortung waiting game… 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![GaryFunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/garyfunk/32/5729_2.png) [@GaryFunk](https://community.tempest.earth/u/GaryFunk)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/39 "2018-04-29T23:21:22Z")
Their concept is great but their follow through lacking. This is a product waiting for a company to take it over. ---
**Author:** ![dsj](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/dsj/32/3_2.png) [@dsj](https://community.tempest.earth/u/dsj)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/40 "2018-04-30T14:52:08Z")
On the technical side, @GaryFunk and @weather-display are both correct. With enough Smart Weather Stations out there we could provide a very rough sense of the location and movement of thunderstorms. But to really pinpoint the location of individual strikes you need different hardware than the AIR contains. Specifically, you’d need more and larger receiving antennas (significantly larger than the antenna inside AIR). You would also need a GPS chip not only for location but for the very critical timing necessary. You need a much more accurate relative time-of-arrival than a clock set via NTP can provide (i.e. you need nanoseconds, not milliseconds). If we were to develop a product like this it would likely be its own module and part of our future commercial line of stations. On the business side, we have admired the Blitzortung system for many years. What they’ve built is impressive and would be difficult to replicate. There are several commercial lightning data sources out there but they are extremely expensive and closed. Blitzortung is the opposite of that. We (WeatherFlow) would love to help them figure out how to grow the Blitzortung system, keeping the data open and “free” but also working out a way to pay for it. Egon and Tobias are likely and understandably suspicious of a commercial entity like WeatherFlow saying such a thing - they have yet to respond to our inquiries. But we know it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/phoenix/32/2071_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://community.tempest.earth/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/41 "2018-04-30T15:17:31Z")
> [@eric](#): > > Blitzortnung is not a ‘paid service’. Yes you have to buy a detector (cost price to make it and transport). > > Once you participate you have access to all the data. This is ran by basically 2 people (Egon and Tobias from Germany) and they cover the cost for the servers. Development is mostly done by them + a very little group of HW/SW experts in the matter of lightning. > > There are several reasons why it is going slow. > > - It’s Egon that does all the hardware related things and it is taking time to do as this is not a business nor automated thing. Boards are produced in batches as he pre pays all. > - Since latest model (blue) they are taking it a bit slower as they invested ‘too’ much personal time into this taking it’s toll. > - Expanding the network with thousands of detectors to quickly will create heavy problems server side as the data flow is pretty huge (each station does send several hundreds of Mb when an active storm is near). > - Also most orders come from people in already dense covered regions, except sending more data, it will not add more accuracy ‘yet’. They prefer to send to people in remote areas or not dense zones. > - Since several months they focus more on serverside software to improve performance and to exploit the better options from the blue systems. > > Again no one makes any money from Blitzortnung. It is a community system and there is no business model behind it. That’s as much I know about it. Besides what you stated up above can anyone just view and access the lightning data? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/phoenix/32/2071_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://community.tempest.earth/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/42 "2018-04-30T15:21:50Z")
> [@dsj](#): > > On the technical side, @GaryFunk and @weather-display are both correct. With enough Smart Weather Stations out there we could provide a very rough sense of the location and movement of thunderstorms. But to really pinpoint the location of individual strikes you need different hardware than the AIR contains. Specifically, you’d need more and larger receiving antennas (significantly larger than the antenna inside AIR). You would also need a GPS chip not only for location but for the very critical timing necessary. You need a much more accurate relative time-of-arrival than a clock set via NTP can provide (i.e. you need nanoseconds, not milliseconds). If we were to develop a product like this it would likely be its own module and part of our future commercial line of stations. > > On the business side, we have admired the Blitzortung system for many years. What they’ve built is impressive and would be difficult to replicate. There are several commercial lightning data sources out there but they are extremely expensive and closed. Blitzortung is the opposite of that. We (WeatherFlow) would love to help them figure out how to grow the Blitzortung system, keeping the data open and “free” but also working out a way to pay for it. Egon and Tobias are likely and understandably suspicious of a commercial entity like WeatherFlow saying such a thing - they have yet to respond to our inquiries. But we know it’s possible. I hope very much the company at Blitzortung will take a few minutes to read what the WeatherFlow company has been doing. I’m sure at some time they will see the value and benefit in a business collaboration. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![vreihen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/community.tempest.earth/vreihen/32/13217_2.png) [@vreihen](https://community.tempest.earth/u/vreihen)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903/43 "2018-04-30T15:50:07Z")
> [@Phoenix](#): > > Besides what you stated up above can anyone just view and access the lightning data? At least in overview map form: > **[Lightning & Thunderstorms - World Map](https://www.blitzortung.org/en/live_lightning_maps.php)** > > Blitzortung.org provides lightning and thunderstorm information in real-time on maps for USA, United Kingdom, Australia, new Zealand, Europa, Africa, Asia and other Countries. [Previous page](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.tempest.earth/t/thunderstorm-where/903.md?page=3)